Kembang Kemboja Tapestry, a batik indigo artwork by Ummi Junid (Photo source: Dunia Motif)

Ummi Junid is a Malaysian batik artist, a natural dyer, and the founder of Dunia Motif. She explores and shares her love for natural dyes in various way by looking beyond the current take-make-waste industrial model. She has just completed her MA in Textile Design focusing on kitchen waste dye. Through Dunia Motif, Ummi is determined to share her knowledge on new possibilities of slow-crafted processes of batik and natural dyeing.

In this episode of aNERDspective (our NERD talk show where we converse with amazing friends about their textile adventure and perspectives), we talked to Ummi about her journey leading to setting up Dunia Motif, her adventure in learning and making batik, cultivating and making her own indigo dyes, and also exploring with kitchen waste dyes.

Note: The transcript has been edited for reading format.

Tony Sugiarta: Welcome Ummi to today’s episode of aNERDspective. How are you doing?

Ummi Junid: I am good. How are you?

I am good too.

I got to know about you and Dunia Motif through the power of social media, I guess. I think that I finally found someone whom I can talk to and I am honored to finally have our first Malaysian guest on this show to discuss a little bit about the development of batik in Indonesian and Malaysia.

Thank you for inviting me and I am very honored to be part of this session.

Perhaps before we get into our discussion, you can give a little introduction of yourself, your background, and how you ended up (working) with batik and natural dyes.

My name is Ummi and I am a Malaysian. Previously, I worked as a graphic designer and a creative director. But I do not enjoy working from 9am to 5pm. I prefer to do hands-on materials, play with my bare hands, explore them, touch them, and feel them.

So, I think around 2016, I dwelled into batik. I stumbled into batik actually. It is not my intention. I was working at that time and the company I was working with attached me all the way to West Africa. So from there, I started to venture and see, “Wow, African batik is so amazing.” They got the Ankara cloth, Kente cloth, and so many types of processes and mostly natural processes. They are also involved in batik making, but they use a lot of mud resist technique, a lot of tapioca as well. I realised that it is very interesting.

I realised that when you are in your ground, your own homeland, you do not appreciate what you have, but as you move further, you start to realise that you have so many things to appreciate. From there, I started to explore more about batik. I travelled the world, not the entire world, but I hope one day I can do that. The venture started when I went to India and Indonesia. Those are where I open up my eyes and start looking beyond. What is batik beyond the pattern? What is so special about batik? And the more I dig, the more I try, I am more in love with canting process. It has a very deep connection with me as I use the canting tool and when I start being with the hot wax, I started to feel the connection.

Then, two or three years ago, I think in 2018, I decided to quit my job and I went to venture into batik-making full time. I quit my job and I started for a year doing my own thing, in Malaysia, we call it ‘shiok sendiri’, just do it for fun. At the same time, I travel to Indonesia, I get to know people there and they are very nice. I also met teachers and they taught me (how) to explore the batik.

Beside Indonesia, I also went to the East Coast of Malaysia, Terengganu and Kelantan, that is where our batik exploration in Malaysia. From there, I slowly moved to natural dye. I got to know that batik and natural dyes have its significance and have a very close relationship. I convinced myself that this is what I really want to do and I pursue my studies. I just completed my Master in Textile Design, last year during the pandemic.

I am blessed, at the moment,  I have managed to be a part of this programme called The Startup Visa, that is where the UK home office granted me a startup visa and I have to come up with startup ideas involving batik and natural dyes in the modern and contemporary context.

So, Dunia Motif is actually a startup that is based in UK?

I would say, currently yes, temporarily based in the UK. But right now, I am in Malaysia. So, I can move in on and off to the UK because I need to present the idea and share the process, the knowledge sharing through my platform. I am very blessed because I got this opportunity to be here and in the UK to do what I love to do.

That is very interesting. The fact that you got to know batik from everywhere else before venturing into Malaysia. How is that process for you?

It is not a well planned journey. It is always a stumbled upon. So as I travel, I see and I like to observe the different cultures. I notice (for) African batik, they use a lot of motifs as a definition to show their culture. So, every motif represents a certain culture or certain meaning in the culture itself. For example, they can even show as random as a fan, a table fan, and every line and every stroke has its own meaning to represent their tribes. So, I find it very, very interesting.

When I went to India, the motif that they explored was very intricate. Of course, Indonesia has a very detailed process. And, different parts have different motifs exploration, like Javanese batik, batik pesisiran. They have different stories. Malaysia and Indonesia have a lot of similarities, but of course there is a little bit of difference in terms of the technique and the motif exploration. In Malaysia, our batik is a motif of flora and fauna, our colours have a subtle and soft pastel approach. But this is still yet to be explored. It always has innovation, depending on the maker and how they explore according to their preferences.

Would you say that there is actually more exploration in terms of new motifs as compared to Indonesia where they got some historical motif that has been trial and tested and people have been reproducing that? Would you say so?

You mean in Malaysia?

Yes.

In my personal point of view, Malaysia batik makers like to innovate based on personal exploration and their surroundings. A lot of batik makers in Malaysia are mostly in pesisir pantai, Terengganu and Kelantan. They do not want to be focusing 100% full time doing batik and make money out of it. They like to santai (ed.: enjoy) and not to stress doing it because it is more like a self-exploration. The batik motif is always based on, like I said, flowers and animals (flora and fauna). A lot of the process involves stamping, batik cap. Usually the products produced by these batik makers are mostly sarong and batik lepas (ed.: full-length, unstitched cloth). I would say, it is more on the personal preference. There is no definite pattern, but of course to represent Malaysia, I would say the first thing in my mind is rebung motif.

The pucuk rebung?

Yes.

Interesting that you said that they are not exactly a full-time batik maker, but it is more of an exploration.

Yes, the recent trip that I did in 2019. It is not a very big industry and it is done by family, we call it a cottage industry and they produce and supply only based on demand. To get the material and resources is not cheap, it is quite expensive, so they have to import the colours and wax. We do not have our own resources.

How about you, yourself, how do you get inspired (when) exploring your work?

Well, inspiration comes from, like I said, my travel and also my daily activities. A lot of things that I do, I always relate with my surroundings and the current situation I am dealing with. So, I would say, inspiration comes from around me and with this time around, during the pandemic, it is very interesting and challenging. I sort of discover more ideas when you are being challenged to be indoor.

Can you share some of the things that you have (learnt or some revelation after) being locked down?

I was doing my Master project last year. I cannot go out because the UK has very strict SOPs and we are advised to just stay indoors. I was in my final year and needed to come up with a final project. I was so down and I do not know what to do because as a maker, you need to have a space, a tool, you need to move out and get inspiration from nature, people, etc. But you are indoor and locked up. I realised, actually you need to see things deeper, in the surroundings closer to you. That is where I realise that the food that I make produces waste. The waste can be sort of our resource. From there I dig deeper and start exploring. That is why I came up with the kitchen waste dye project for my final project. It went very well, I like the idea and I would like to explore the idea further moving forward.

Interesting. So, do you do batik on those as well?

That is an interesting question. I would love to, but making batik and natural dye is not as easy as we thought because you need to remove the wax. When you do that, you need to boil the fabric and material, and natural dye is quite sensitive to temperature and pH. I have tried once, but you can see very subtle colours. This is where I am trying to challenge the perception from the consumer part. Synthetic dyes remain forever on the fabric, but natural dye does not last long. So, how do I change the perception and the perspective coming from the consumers because current consumers think that when you buy something, it should last long and should remain forever. That is the stigma I need to break through.

Also the thing is, when they buy they want something that is long lasting and, after a while, because everything moves so fast, they will buy a new one. So, what happens to you wanting to buy a long lasting item but you just buy a new one.

That is where I actually like the idea and the concept of the circular economy or we called it the circular system, where we are trying to take, make, produce and waste. You throw the waste, it is a linear system. Currently, coming from a foundation where they are trying to incorporate our waste resources as part of the material. The cycle of the product is returned back to the earth or Mother Nature rather than you take, you make, and become waste at the end of the day.

How do I change the perception coming from the current consumers who think that when you buy something, it should last long and should remain forever?

So, currently you are working with kitchen waste. Do you use any other materials that you are exploring?

Sometimes, I do not set any outcome because playing with natural dyes or waste materials, you have to expect a surprise element. Recently we did Hari Raya, we celebrated Idul Fitri a couple of weeks ago. I decided to actually use waste from my mom’s rendang, like onion skin, kulit halia (ginger peel) , kulit kunyit (turmeric peel) and anything related to the rendang ingredients and I tried to make colours from it and it was a success. It was really interesting.

Sometimes it is true, what they say is that you are what you eat. I am trying to collect colours that relate to me and my heritage, what I eat, and plants that I have around my house. I am trying to appreciate little things that you have around you. Somehow it creates a lot of surprising elements which you never expect.

Just look around and the nearest place is your kitchen. Literally you can get a lot of different surprises and colours.

In Asia, we cook all the time. So, I think most of the resources are coming from our kitchen.

Is there a natural dye batik culture in Malaysia?

Slowly, it is getting there, it is coming. That is why I think I put myself as part of the responsibility to educate and to share the knowledge. I am trying to beat the consumerism concept here because it is that you buy things that you do not need and you keep buying them again and again. How can I, as a batik maker, sustain my source of income but also not push for people to buy more than what they need. It is very tough but there is a way to do it. So, back to your question, is there a culture of natural dye batik making? Yes, it is very small and it is progressing and it is coming soon, I would say.

I heard from someone I met in Pekalongan. He is from Johor and he was doing a final year project in indigo natural dyes and I heard he is starting up an indigo plantation and a whole batik workshop using indigo in Terengganu, I believe.

Yes, slowly, it is coming. In fact, I actually adopted my first indigo seeds all the way from Pekalongan and also Semarang. So, I have met the Dean and Professor from Pekalongan, Zahir Widadi. He is a very nice man. Thank you for his knowledge. We actually discussed and I got a lot of input. How do I actually cultivate indigo making here in Malaysia. It took me three years to make my own natural dye, my own paste and produce my own colour from my own plant. It is very interesting. From there, I started to share the indigo seeds with Malaysian batik makers and anyone who is interested. I share all the seeds and the indigo plant is growing around Malaysia.

Awesome. So, all the indigo products that we see on your site are all from your plant?

That is the intention. But, to be honest, no. I cannot do that for now because I do not have enough land to cultivate the entire indigo because to make a kilo of indigo piece requires at least 10-15 kilograms of leaves and I do not have the luxury to do it as of now. But I manage to make 2 or 3 kilos and I do not do it for products, it is more on making workshops and sharing the process to as many as I could. It is more important than making a product and selling it. Like I mentioned earlier, my intention of setting up Dunia Motif is to have a knowledge based platform, to share the process of batik making and also natural dye making. Very slow and it takes step by step to do it.

What sort of products and offerings do you have through Dunia Motif?

I don’t really have a definite product or product planning because when I read further about sustainable development and also the circular system, I do not want to make products after products just for the sake of selling it. I would rather have a product that has a big value and meaning and my product is considered very limited because I only do it in a very small quantity. Most of the approach of what I am trying to do is to tell the background story, the process, rather than the output or outcome or final product. I have been trying to push all this information through different platforms, like podcasts, Youtube, or whatever that I can. I go at it the other way around. I would share the story and the process and if anyone appreciated what I do then they would purchase the product. So, I don’t really have a definite product or product planning like by this year I would do some products. I only make according to what I see needed in that particular time. It sounds weird and it does not make a lot of money anyway, but it is always about knowledge. I push more on knowledge rather than selling the product itself.

How long have you started Dunia Motif?

I started Dunia Motif back in 2016. Previously, Dunia Motif was an online magazine platform. After my travel to Sierra Leone, West Africa, I actually (got) connected with a lot of batik makers across the world – in America, German, Indonesia, India, Poland, etc. So, I collect all the information and they contributed some of their stories and I published them in an online magazine and online platform. So, it is actually how Dunia Motif started. It evolves eventually. After I discover natural dye, I start blogging and write about it, cultivating the indigo seeds, so it evolves. Initially Dunia Motif was an online magazine platform. It has been 5-6 years since 2016.

Educating consumers of the process, the slow process that is opposite of what is happening in the world.

Educating myself and so eventually educating those who are interested.

How is the response towards your work so far?

It is very positive. Although it is progressive, it is positive. A lot of Malaysians are actually interested to know what exactly is slow fashion, what is slow made process. But the challenge here is (that) hand-made product and the slow made process requires time. When it requires time, it also requires resources and when the product goes to the market, it is not cheap. That is the challenge and being Malaysians, we love to actually buy things that are reasonable and affordable. So, how do I actually set the idea of slow fashion or slow made process in between so we could actually get more consumers to buy the product and appreciate it rather than just buy it because of wanting it.

I guess you do it mostly through education, through your platforms and you conduct workshops.

Yes, workshops. In fact, I actually published an online zine. Those who are interested can just download it for free and they learn how to make colours from their own kitchen resources or kitchen waste.

Have you gotten any feedback so far or anyone trying to do it?

Yes. In fact, they actually feed me a lot of information. We exchange information. Some of the kitchen waste that I have never explored, they managed to explore. So it is a community at a moment and then we actually exchange recipes, like how do you do your colour and how do I get my colour and sort of things like that. So it is very interesting and the more we connect and I would say you can create a community out of this. But yeah, it is growing. I am not saying it is a culture of a lifestyle. But we are growing there slowly.

What is the most interesting colour or material that you come across?

I would say everything that I do. *laugh*

Or the most surprising or the most memorable one?

The memorable one is actually when I was cooking my Sago Gula Melaka. Sago is a dessert. Sago is a actually a paste.

I was doing my onion skin dye at that moment and then I tried to just put in my Sago, I blend them, mash them and just apply on my onion skin. It actually creates a different colour out of it because I think sago has a very high alkali or acidity, I am not sure. So it changes colour eventually. I just put a lot of (stuff as) you have a lot of time during lockdown. You just explore and play around.

Also, I was having the rust from the nails. I just sprinkled the water and it had a very interesting effect. So initially my idea of natural dyes was just one colour, just one flat colour. But after a lot of experimentation and playing around, actually all of these ingredients can contribute to the changes of the colour. When it is dry, it changes according to the surroundings as well. So, I made with Sago Gula Melaka. I played around with my chicken soup. I made a soup and from the food waste, the dry scrap, I boiled them and I made colours. It becomes a chicken soup colour.

Do you use the bones as well?

No. All of the scraps taken from all the dried materials. So for example, if I were to make a chicken soup, then I would have my daun soup, carrot tops, onion skin, ginger skin and I dry them, put them separately and then the next day or a couple of days after that, I will start to boil them. I do have a lot of questions like how do you make your chicken soup colour? You boil all the bones? No, I said no. It is all from the dried materials.

So you only use plant-based materials. You do not use the animal parts?

No… yet. Maybe in the future, who knows.

Is there a particular material that you avoid or will not explore?

I never avoid anything, but the boiling process makes a lot of weird smells actually, like it or not. Anyways, it is all from nature so it is okay. Nothing yet that I  avoid, I think I enjoy all the process so far.

Limitation can become a source of inspiration.

What are some of the challenges that you face?

If I put it in context when I was in the UK, (one of) the challenges is of course the weather and also the space that I am living in. It is an unfamiliar space and of course the weather plays a very important role when I do my natural dye making. When you have very limited space tools and you cannot really explore what you want to. But I take it in a positive manner where all this limitation can become a source of inspiration. So I do not put any expectation on what I want to achieve, I just trust the process.

Then I put myself here in context when I am back in Malaysia, I feel a lot more freedom, although I am still in lockdown. At the moment Malaysia still in lockdown, but I still feel the freedom, I still go out. We have a lot of herbal plants, all the ulam-ulam outside there. My mom grows a lot of ulam. There are a bit more possibilities I can explore. But sometimes, I feel when you have more possibilities, when you have more resources, you tend to do nothing about it. So you would appreciate things that you do not have, rather than when you have everything around you, you will not appreciate it. So it is tough to be human, isn’t it?

Yes, that is the paradox of choice. The more choice you have, the more you are not gonna end up buying it or choosing anything.

Oh, well, that is human behavior.

An interesting point that you brought up. How is the weather affecting the process?

If I was exploring my natural dye during winter at that moment, to dry my fabric takes ages and you do not have natural sunlight. When you do not have natural sunlight and everything I do actually depends on my dryer. So you are forcing the natural element to dry. It is not an actual process and I do make a comparison: drying using natural lighting actually gives a very subtle outcome. When you forced (the process) like you iron the clothes or the material, you are forcing the fabric to dry. I feel the difference. Maybe not that obvious, but as a person who does the process hands on and I actually can see the difference when you force the natural element to dry, without using any natural lighting.

The second of course is the limited resources or not having enough tools. I do not even have a big pot to actually dye my fabric. So it is very tough. But just manage things according to what you have.

The weather is definitely something that I do not consider because we are here in the tropics.

Yes, we are blessed with the sunlight. In the UK, it is  very grumpy weather. You can have sunlight and you thought that it is a sunny day, but five minutes after it is like a gloomy day so you cannot expect or hope for nice weather in the UK because it changes drastically anytime.

A lot of natural dye makers in the UK, or in that particular part of the world, actually use a lot of eco-printing techniques. They steam and and they do a lot of processing according to their environment. But here in this tropical part of the world, we utilize our Mother Nature, our sunlight and in fact to boil my fabric or to remove the wax I use dapur api kayu (ed.: wood-fire stove).

Like I said, coming back to Malaysia is a blessing. You just need to know how to manage it because if you have everything, you do not do anything, (it is wasteful).

That is a very important message, to be grateful of the abundance and to make use of them.

Any other challenges that you can think of?

I think the challenge is during this pandemic time. You need to be more resistant towards limitations like trying to see deeper meaning in every little thing that we do and we have. This is the moment where we deconstruct things and reconstruct the ideas and the concepts towards the process. So as a natural dye and batik maker, this is the moment where I actually spend more time to retrospect and to see what we do as a human being, our contribution towards society and how we actually mend our relationship with Mother Nature.

We have a lot of disasters and it is coming from us. You preserve the historic element. You want to create something, innovate things but do also consider going back one step behind and try to preserve things that we already have, especially when we talk about the culture and the heritage and try to actually incorporate things that we make.

I realized as a maker and as a crafter, we forgot to utilize elements that are in front of us. We tend to push things further away because of the current demand and we try to go beyond what we can do. With this situation during this pandemic time, maybe we should just slow down a bit more and try to appreciate what we have and do a little bit of retrospection as a maker and what we can do to society and towards nature as well. I think it is a blessing in disguise when we have this situation. It makes me appreciate being alive more.

During this pandemic, we should just slow down a bit more and try to appreciate what we have. 

Can I say that you are actually working on your own, like you make your own products and you do not really involve artisans?

Yes, at the moment, it is all hands-on with these two bare hands. I do my own canting (ed.: waxing), I do my own self-exploration. It is nice to have a collective team where you can actually do things together. Maybe in the future hopefully. I would love to connect with artisans around the world and try to learn from them because I cannot do what I do alone. I believe it is always about teamwork collective and from there, we can do more rather than just one person. At the moment, I can do what I can as an individual. And I try to reach as many as I could through all these social media platforms and other platforms that I can reach.

What are some of the current projects that you are working on if you can share some or two initiatives that you have?

I have multiple projects but I set a priority to certain projects. So at the moment I am running a podcast, it is called Tukang Celup Warna . The idea is to have a section a borak santai session, with researchers, academicians, the makers particularly in Malaysia and share their thoughts and their points of view on certain topics like recently we talked about batik in Malaysia and what is the issue, what is the struggle during this pandemic.

At the same time, I plan to collect data coming from my surroundings here, what do I do with plants around me, or can all these plants extract colours. So it is an experiment stage, collecting, reading and playing around with my plants. My mom will ask what I am doing with all her leaves and I say that this is an experiment and this is part of my research.

Are you doing it at your home?

I am actually currently living with her (my mum). At first she was like “Do you know why I plant all this? This is for you to eat.” I said, “yeah you can eat that but also we can explore and make colours from it, who knows?” It could give colours or tannins. There are a lot of possibilities. I wish I could collaborate with anyone with this background because I do not have any background in plants and all these trees. So I just depend on Google and some books.

But also it is to make full use of the plants, right? I mean you can eat and then you can do something with the scraps.

My mom is giving up because I have bottles of kulit bawang. I even collect the fish scales and dry them. So there are a lot of collections.

My fridge is full of extracts too.

Only people who know can deal with us, I guess.

So you have a podcast, exploring of inventorising the colours of your surroundings.

Yes, colours from my mom’s garden. I do not know what the project is called but at the moment I have collected daun bunga telang or the butterfly peas. But you can also make paste out of it. I have done a lot of experiments and I managed to achieve a paste so you can print directly on the garment or on the fabric using the paste technique. So, a lot of possibilities. It is just that when you are alone, when you are doing this on your own, you have to manage everything so it is a very slow process.

With your startup grant, are you expected to have certain deliverables?

With this startup visa from the UK, I set my own plan. At the end of the day, I need to actually showcase and also present the business ideation. To the extent, if anyone is interested to be part of it, then they would bring the idea and incubate.

The intention here is actually I would love to come back to Malaysia and to contribute back to Malaysia.  I think that is a big chance and bigger opportunity. It is more important for me to actually connect back with my society, my culture and give back to my own people. So going to the UK is to explore and to learn and to also experiment things. At the end of the day, to come back and give back.

What would be your final words to summarize your work and also hopes for Dunia Motif and your research?

Because of the pandemic, we cannot really have a long term plan at the moment. Of course, in a nutshell, I would love to put Dunia Motif as a platform where it is a base for everyone to reach and to get information.

We become a community of different backgrounds. It does not have to be a natural dye, it does not have to be batik. But we try to incorporate the idea of the circular economy, the circular concept, try to make reasonable things and a practicality out of it rather than just to make and sell and get stuck in that loop again and again.

It is about time for us to actually acknowledge and start to rationalise things and be a responsible human being because we have done a lot of mess to nature. It is a big responsibility but I can do what I can, that is why I do what I could by just sharing the kitchen waste project for a start.

Definitely the thing that resonates with me is to create that community where we share resources, ideas or just feedback. We definitely will be able to explore and collaborate together, how we can take this conversation further into our own communities.

Yes, definitely, looking forward to it.

Once again, thank you so much Ummi for dropping by. I really appreciate your input.

All right, thank you so much for having me.

 

We hope you enjoyed this episode of aNERDspective. Check out the previous episode on IGTV and our gallery and store if you would like a piece of Indonesia for your home or wardrobe. You may also check out  Dunia Motif’s Instagram for the latest collection.

Photo credit: Dunia Motif, unless stated otherwise.